A Real-Time Account Of My Argument With Another Christian Over Homosexuality And Sin

The Argument

Me: This makes it sound like the only way to be forgiven is to turn away from sin forever, which is impossible thanks to Adam and Eve.

Her: when we turn away from sin, we are not saying, i no longer have sin. We will still have sin, but the difference is between those who refuse to change, and those who rely on Jesus to free them from sin! though we will still have sin, it is the POWER of sin that is broken. That is what it means to be born again. When we are given the Holy Spirit, literally our nature to sin is changed. we will still have temptation, but we then have the Spirit to convict us, and we then can rely on Jesus to bring us THROUGH temptation without sinning! Because HE overcame temptation! it is not about us trying to squeeze the sin out of ourselves, but relying on Jesus who can destroy it! There is no condemnation in Him. He never came to condemn us, or even give us another religion. He came to save us from literally ourselves! I was born again 2 years ago, Christ literally set me free! I am free! I still sin, but I am free from the condemnation of it! No glory to me of course, but He gives me joy and love like nothing of which the world gives! the joy i used to have in sin is misery now compared to what Christ has given me. When we become born again, we automatically become heirs of the everlasting Kingdom God has instore after the destruction of this world. We become His children, and He our Father. It is a 100% gift of God! We cant earn a gift, it is a gift! we cant earn salvation, Christ freely gives it!! Isnt that fantastic? A gift of eternal life for all who rely on Him in faith! He is a wonderful wonderful King, and never forgets His people! He DIED for His people to save them! That is love! Good day to you

Me: Okay listen up. For one, I get where you’re coming from. I’ve been going to church for over 14 years now, so let’s say I have a bit more experience than you. Judging from what you’ve been saying, you’ve been spoon-fed the sugarcoated version. “Jesus died for me, all my sins are gone!” Hate to break it to you, kid, but that’s not how it works. We still sin. We still do horrible things. We might repent or we might not. But no matter what, we sin every single day. Because we’re not going to be thinking of Jesus every second of every day. Because God gives us free will and free choice and if you’re faced with a difficult decision, he isn’t going to talk to you and guide you by the hand to do what’s right. He’s going to let you go ahead and do what you choose to do. That might mean giving in to temptation. That might mean pulling through. But we all sin each and every day, and we can’t change that. We fall away from God and he brings us back to him. You still sin. You still go through life. Your sins are forgiven, yes, but that happens during Judgement Day when you are being judged and Jesus basically stands between you and God so that God only sees his perfection and not the sin that you are shrouded in. He doesn’t destroy the sin. It’s still there. He just covers it up. And another thing – God never said he hated anybody. He said that if you believe in Him, then you’ll go to heaven. You don’t have to stop sinning, you don’t have to give up a literal part of who you are and who you identify as (cough cough sexuality) just to get into Heaven. I’m not saying you just sin whenever you want. I’m saying that you can like whoever you want and date whoever you want because God never said he hated anybody and never said explicitly that homosexuality is a sin. So toughen up and look at the truth and accept that not everything is rainbows and butterflies all the time.

Her: that is exactly what i said, we still sin, but we are free from the condemnation of it when we turn away from it and to Jesus

Me: So why are you saying that Jesus destroys the sin and that we have to give up sexualities and bits of who we are just so he will forgive us?

Her: Jesus told us we would have to deny ourselves to follow Him. He does destroy sin in people, He breaks its chains and sets people free from the sins that held them down. Drugs, drunkness, etc. My anger problems have been destroyed, and I am no longer held down by them, because Jesus gets me through temptation! We have to remember that Jesus specifically said to repent or perish. Homosexuality is a sin. Remember sodom and gomorrah. The men in that city wanted to do you know what with the 2 men with Lot, the angels. Lot was willing to give up his daughter to them to prevent that sin. Levi 18:22 is very clear. Romans 1:26-28 make it clear that it is not something that pleases God. We have to remember that sowing to our flesh will reap condemnation and corruption, but sowing to the Spirit will reap eternal life. No sin is worth holding onto.

Me: You say he ‘destroys’ the sin. He does not. Sin itself is an act that we commit, and these acts cannot be undone. He does not destroy our sin, he covers it and, once we are in heaven, he destroys its hold on us by covering it up. In terms of Levi 18:22, there are multiple versions. As I said before, many versions say “If a man lies with a man AS HE LIES WITH A WOMAN…” So tell me. Does this mean ‘while’ or ‘in the same way’? Again, THERE HAVE BEEN STUDIES ON THIS THAT SHOW it is MOST LIKELY TO MEAN POLYGAMY, not homosexuality. As for the other verse – all of that was only after God turned their hearts to change their sexual ways and make them ashamed of themselves, as it was illegal at the time. The verses say that this in itself – going against their own sexuality – was the punishment for turning from God to idols and fake gods. It says later, “They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.” These things are their true errors and sins. It says earlier, “Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.” It is described as ‘shameful’ not because it is shameful in God’s eyes, but because it is shameful to themselves. The penalty he speaks of is, again, them doing what is illegal in their own country while being unable to stop it. Now, though, it is not shameful. God has created people with specific sexualities. If we are all made in our own way with our own wants and personalities, are we supposed to just try and quit that? Are we supposed to try and change the way God made us because of three bible verses that may have been misinterpreted for thousands of years?